By In this compelling interview by Stonix News‘ Publisher EBENEZER ADUROKIYA in Kampala, a Senior Pastor of the Redeemed Christian Church of God in Uganda, Pastor Bamidele Oseni of Ambassadors Parish, Kulolo, Kampala, offers an unvarnished look at three decades of ministry in a nation that loves God, but does things very differently from Nigeria. From the challenge of crippling rent costs to the cultural patience required to win genuine converts, the former bank executive explores why Ugandans take a decade to trust their pastors—but once they do, nothing can break that bond. He also reflects on what Nigerians and Ugandans can learn from one another, the surprising impact of Dove TV, and why he believes Uganda’s future lies in investment, not job-seeking. Excerpts:
Pastor Oseni
How would you describe the spiritual climate in Uganda for RCCG ministry?
In RCCG Uganda, we are blessed to have a nation that loves God. The Ugandans genuinely love God and they love their pastor. Now, if someone hasn’t known them very well, you might think they’re being rude. They rarely want to have altercations with anyone. But they don’t joke with their pastors—they honour them.
They love RCCG because of our Daddy in the Lord. Daddy G.O has made such a profound impression in this nation. He has impacted their lives so deeply that they really honour him. And to add to that, Dove TV has been a wonderful thing. It’s very rare to find ten Christian homes in Uganda where you won’t see seven watching Dove TV. They listen to Daddy G.O’s messages and they are genuinely blessed by them.
When Pastor Brown Oyitso, Chairman, Central Mission Board, came here in 2022; he visited three houses, saw Dove TV in each one, and was absolutely shocked. He couldn’t believe this great thing was working so well here. So Daddy G.O has been a tremendous blessing to us—he has helped us work.
How long has RCCG been established in Uganda, and what is your current reach?
The church has been here for 30 years now. By November this year, we will celebrate 30 years of RCCG in Uganda. In terms of parishes, I can say we’re not less than 30—probably about 35, and some new ones are coming in.
Geographically, we are most concentrated in Central Uganda—about 60 per cent. Another 15 per cent is in Eastern Uganda, and we have about 15 per cent in Western Uganda. The only region where we used to be present but are not now is Northern Uganda. That’s an area we’re praying about.
What reputation has RCCG built over those three decades?
They know us as a praying church, a holy church, and as a church with mission-driven goals. By the grace of God, we’ve been able to make real impact. There have been borehole projects and community initiatives. It has been an impactful church.
There are many people who see some of us as their mentors, even those who have gone on to start their own ministries. They come to us for spiritual guidance and prayers. We have pastored people who have started their own churches too, and that has worked very well for us in Uganda.
By the grace of God, if you look at the West African Region, after Kenya, we are next in terms of numbers of parishes. When you’re talking about the region, Uganda is next in terms of growth.
Pastor Oseni
What hasn’t worked as well? Where do you see need for improvement?
The area that needs improvement is grounding ourselves as a church in terms of policy and the nature of RCCG. Many of us in Uganda have not really understood the mission strategy of the church. They know it, but they’ve not been able to integrate it. And you cannot change people’s culture suddenly.
Here’s the reality: because of the high cost of rent in Kampala, when you meet a pastor, the first thing that comes to his mind is how he’s going to get out of the pressure of rent. He’s not primarily interested in planting and growing exponentially because the rent is crippling. For instance, where we are, we pay $1,000 for two churches—that’s $2,000 total. So when you speak to our people about planting more churches, they say, “Why would we pay rent when we could get a place on the outskirts and build?” Their thinking is: after building, then we can start a church because we’re not paying rent. Whatever comes in then goes to the church.
So those things you have in Nigeria where people plant churches exponentially because of low rent costs? It’s not easy here.
But some of you have managed to plant churches despite these challenges. How?
By the grace of God, some of us have been able to do it because we knew the church policies and mission—that the only thing that will work for you is not just attendance. They are interested in revenue and growth. So when we started our church in Kololo, it was always in our minds that we must expand. Because we came from Nigeria, we knew that six years after becoming a pastor, the next thing is starting a church personally from our own pockets. I was paying $2,600 in rent then.
After some time, we started another church in Bokwa through a friend who believed in our calling. That church is thriving with over 120 in attendance. Another church we resurrected after COVID about two years ago.
But we’re not like Nigeria or other nations where you see churches everywhere. Not because we don’t want to do it—but because it takes tremendous sacrifice for people like us. It impacts families. That’s where I think we need to improve.
What would be a realistic target for RCCG Uganda?
The way we are in Uganda, if we had more than 100 parishes, it wouldn’t be too much. If you look at where we’re coming from, we should have at least five times what we have. But cost and resources hold us back. Human resources is one factor. When Pastor Patrick started his church 10 years ago on a permanent property, he could leave someone else to pastor it today. But sometimes people start a church, face challenges, and the church closes.
What advice would you give someone wanting to plant a church in Uganda?
If you can, plant your church on a landed property. As a pastor, I don’t want anyone to go through what I went through with rent. It made me tough, yes—but it was hard. When I started, I was paying $3,000 in Konu.
If you start a church by getting land, paying for it, and putting up a tent, the community believes it’s yours. They will bring money to build that place. The community will come together and construct it. They don’t like renting because it’s simply too expensive.
What are the actual rental costs in different areas?
In locations like Kololo and Naguru, average rent is about $2,000. If you want to help someone, and you give them one year’s rent, we’re talking about $24,000. For Bokoto, you can come down to about $10,000 to $12,000 a year.
We don’t have a church in Bokoto, and one of the most thriving churches today—one that attracts many foreigners—is there. If you want to start a church in Uganda and you have $5,000, look for land worth $5,000.
What about human resources for ministry?
Human resources isn’t really an issue in Uganda. What we need is this: if you want to support missionary work, fine. If you say you’re giving us money, and because you perceive a human resources challenge, you want to bring your own people to help us, that’s fine too. But if you bring people, there must be Ugandans they mentor in the process. Maybe for three years or so.
If they don’t bring people, those of us who have resources can juggle. For instance, Pastor Emmanuel here can juggle multiple roles. I have been juggling. I run a digital church online every week. I pastor, but not full time. I’m still a consultant and a banker—active—because I will not wait for somebody to finance the work of God for me. If I need to pay rent and there’s no money in the church, will I begin to wait for people?
How can supporters from outside best help RCCG Uganda?
You can support us not just by starting churches. You can come to us and say, “Every year, I will come to RCCG Uganda to do CSR, to sponsor children, students, and so on.” We want to make as many people as possible literate and educated.
Here, unlike in Nigeria and some other countries, people don’t come to your church except they see a project you’re running. Projects such as schools, water—whatever you’re running. They see us as an NGO, and of course, we are an NGO. Unfortunately, the government has moved to a faith-based framework. As faith-based, the government wants to know how you’re contributing to the social economy of Uganda. We’re not paying tax, but we need to prove to the government how we’re impacting the country social-economically. And we do that yearly.
How do government policies compare with neighbouring countries?
Compared to Rwanda, we can say that government policies are favourable to the church. The church has been shut down in Rwanda. Here, we have freedom to operate.
What about Skill-up Kampala? Is it helping church growth?
Skill-up Kampala is helping us, but honestly, we haven’t been tapping its full value. Mummy G.O wants Skill-up Kampala to assist the growth of the church, but it hasn’t been assisting our growth as intended. If that’s not happening, then we’re not tapping the value.
I think that’s why they’ve now constituted a board for Skill-up Kampala—to make sure this objective is achieved. Because we cannot have over a thousand people graduating and yet we can’t say that many people have joined the church. I think the problem is implementation strategy. Some of these strategies have been discussed, but some of us haven’t been part of the implementation, even though we were part of the planning. We’re just being brought into implementation now. Meanwhile, over a thousand people have already graduated. But I believe we’re on the right track now.
There’s a land issue that needs resolution, isn’t there?
Yes. From our discussion with the country coordinator, there’s a land problem. The man who sold the land—because we didn’t take over the title on time—his son tried to be funny with it. Unfortunately, there are now squatters on the land. In Ugandan law, if you’re a squatter for 10 years, they must settle you. This land was purchased around 2007. The lawyer has said that if we can get 50 million Ugandan shillings—about $20,000—we can sort out the problem, secure the title, and proceed.
What’s your appeal regarding this land?
We are appealing to African Mission Global and the Central Mission Board. Our continental headquarters is aware of this; Pastor Peter is aware. So through our continental headquarters, we are appealing to the Central Mission Board. They are the ones who can help. That money can only be given to us to solve this problem once and for all, because this land was bought for us by Daddy G.O personally—not with church money.
The host Pastor, Pastor Oseni addressing the youths
Looking at your overall mission, have you been able to fulfil your dreams?
To some extent, we have been able to fulfil our dreams. Our main challenge is ensuring sustainability and continuity. If you look at our fellow Ugandans here, we’re not able to retain as many of them as we’d like.
This challenge is a tricky one. You know, we have more part-timers than full-timers. But here, the reverse is needed. We have more Ugandans who want to do this work full-time, but we’re not paying them—and that person has to feed his family. So that’s a major challenge. We’re trying to do something that will at least give pastors a small stipend, but that’s where the issue lies.
How are you doing in terms of spread and soul-winning?
We’ve achieved this, vis-a-vis. Apart from international churches, I’m not sure there’s any other church that has the spread we have as RCCG. But from what I’ve seen, in terms of soul-winning, we have not done well.
We need to plant more churches because somebody cannot be coming from Wakiso to Victory Centre every Sunday. Many of our people live outside town; it’s not sustainable. That’s why many of them stop coming. If we’re able to start small churches where people actually live, it will help us fast-track the word, to grow the word. We’ve made impact with evangelism, but these are the things that will help.
What about starting churches in homes, as is common in West Africa?
We have the commitment to start churches in our houses, but we don’t have Ugandans who believe in that model—and that’s where the problem lies. The way we see church in Uganda is: have your own property, have a big church. Most churches here are one-man churches with big buildings and thousands of people. So if you start small, it looks to them as if you’re doing something unusual.
And because of past experiences, people have been abused. So many are skeptical. When people start churches in their houses, there’s fear that the church might disappear tomorrow, that the owner might abscond with their tithes and offerings. They want a place they can always come and see.
It’s not that the commitment isn’t there like in West Africa—we in West Africa are fast, but in Uganda, we’re slow and steady. But nobody is going to come to that house church. For instance, we have problems starting fellowships in homes because in Uganda, you don’t go to people’s houses empty-handed. If you bring people to your house, you must eat there. You must give them something, and that can be very expensive. So people are skeptical. That’s why you see fellowships in secondary schools instead.
Tell us about your personal journey. How did you come to Uganda?
I have been in Uganda for 17 years, but not continuously as a missionary. I came first as a banker in 2009 and stayed until 2012. Then I went to South Sudan as a banker from 2013 to 2014. I came back here, then returned to Nigeria from 2014 to 2016. From Nigeria, I went to Nairobi, Kenya, and stayed from 2016 to 2019 before coming back here.
My wife was co-pastor with me, so when I wasn’t around, she stood in. Since 2013 to 2019, I was moving around, but throughout that time, I was coming to Uganda every Sunday on my own to preach. Left to myself, I should have left long ago. I’ve been looking at so many options. When God says it’s okay to go back to Nigeria, I will go.
What can Nigerians learn from Ugandans about church life?
We need to learn not to stand against pastors. Ugandans will not stand against their pastors; they would rather step away. A Ugandan will not stand in front of a pastor and begin to criticise him. It will never happen. If a Ugandan has an issue with a pastor, you will not see him in that church again. I think that’s scriptural. Raising voices and standing against a pastor is not good.
We need more respect and honour for pastors. A Nigerian will give a pastor money, but a Ugandan will not support until he knows you’re genuine. A Ugandan can be in your church for 10 years and not drop a shilling for you. But after 10 years, when he’s sure you’re genuine, he can be supporting you. They take their time before they release themselves to you, and that’s why it appears they are so closely tied to their pastors once they commit. Before they believe in you as a pastor, they must have gone through some process. But once they see you as genuine, they will respect you deeply.
And what can Ugandans learn from Nigerians?
Response to things. We are a bit slow here. Not that we’re not intelligent—we are—but we’re slow in decisions and actions. However, when we take that action, things might never be the same, and it might not be reversible.
Another thing: openness. Nigerians will say their mind to you and not revisit the issue. But Ugandans can keep things in their mind and be laughing with you. And that’s an area I always complain about seriously. It’s not good because it leads to sickness and disease. A forgiving spirit, not being bitter—that’s important.
If you were Nigerian president, what would you implement from Uganda?
I would insist that our studies be done in our local languages. Our education would be in mother tongues. Children should be taught in their mother tongue and should have no apology for speaking their languages. It helps people learn.
If you go to a typical Ugandan school, it starts at 8:00a.m and closes at 2:00p.m officially. But parents don’t pick their children until 5:00p.m because from 2:00p.m to 5:00p.m, they start teaching lessons that slow students didn’t understand—in languages they can understand, not in English. It has really worked here. I think that’s a problem we have in Nigeria. We are very apologetic about our languages and don’t give them prominence. They always come second. Now, East Africa has adopted Swahili as their common language.
Pastor Bamidele Oseni
What about workplace practices?
When you’re very influential, there are things you don’t do. For instance, if you’re an expatriate in Uganda, there are limits on how long you can stay. After some time, you have to go—maybe a maximum of six years. That’s an area I would not suggest copying, because there’s benefit in cross-cultural knowledge.
In the banking industries I’ve been part of, we promote people without preparing them for leadership, just because an indigene must be in charge. That’s not wise. It’s always good to have a process in place for succession plans.
Would you advise Nigerians to come and stay in Uganda?
Yes! Nigerians should come and stay in Uganda because you’ll live longer. You’ll be out of the hustling and bustling of Lagos and Nigeria. If you come here, you will have peace. As one is aging, they should be cutting down on certain activities. In Nigeria, you see older persons still doing certain stressful activities—that’s why they die from pressure.
Also, the best fruits in the world are in Uganda. We don’t have so much variety in Nigeria, and so we don’t live a balanced life. It’s a life of work, work, work. Here, you live a balanced life. You sleep, you work, and you eat a balanced diet.
What have you discovered about relationships here after so many years?
Having stayed here for so many years, I’ve discovered that there are many of our people here. And the community we find ourselves in holds people in high esteem. You can stay with a Ugandan for 15 years, he may not come to see you, but in those 15 years, he believes in you for life. Nothing can come between you.
Our people sometimes—it’s what they can get from you. Once you’re not adding value, they throw you away like a bean. But Ugandans stay with you.
How is the infrastructure compared to when you arrived?
The infrastructure here is much better than when I came, and it’s getting better. You have light 24/7. You don’t need to buy a generator.
What advice would you give Nigerians considering relocation?
If you’re coming here, come as an investor. Don’t come for jobs. There are no jobs here. People don’t have jobs. You come here for investment. There are so many areas to invest in—education, oil and gas, agriculture—and the returns are high. Come here to be an entrepreneur. The jobs aren’t enough unless you have some rare skills.
Are there Nigerian communities here?
Yes, we do have Nigerian communities, but they’ve become fragmented over the years because of tribalistic sentiment. The Igbo community was dominating the leadership for a while, and after some time, other tribes pulled out to set up their own.
Any final appeal?
Some of us need support to ensure the church of God keeps thriving. Uganda is expensive for running a church. We’re asking for partnership, for prayer, and for understanding as we do things mpola-mpola—slowly, slowly but sure.
What's your reaction?
